Tuners

[rhino458]

Looking for an antenna tuner for 6-20 meters. Any recommendations?

[231]

Not enough information. How much wattage? What kind of budget do you have to work with? A little more info' would really help us narrow the playing field some.

I doubt you'll need one for 6m but it depends on what you plan on using for an antenna. Heck, a dipole, yagi, or other resonant antenna for 6m wouldn't need a tuner. Most run antennas designed for 6m and more often than not don't require a tuner.

Palstar and Alpha are considered by most hams to be the best. There are a couple of European models out there that are awesome too. But better plan on spending a small fortune on them because they are going to set you back a pretty penny. Especially new. I'm a fan of the old Dentron, Drake, Ten-Tec, Nye-Viking, Heathkit 2600, and a few others. There are darned few MFJ tuners I would use...but hey, if your budget only allows one then go with it. Some of the T-network tuners they are making with a tapped inductor are pretty good and will tune most things...plus they can be had at a reasonable price.

For auto-tuners, Palstar, Alpha, and Tokyo Hi-power are probably the best...but expensive. SGC is decent, and LDG & MJF probably useable...just depends. I had an LDG auto tuner for my Icom IC-7000 and hated it. It was probably the worse tuner I'd ever bought and just wouldn't buy another. Their bigger tuners are decent though (and allot more expensive).

I use an old Dentron 3kw tuner in the shack with a tapped inductor though. It's been "Old Reliable" and I just couldn't imagine parting with it. I usually keep a Ten-Tec L-Network 2kw model 229 or 238 for my stand by tuner as well. They can be had pretty reasonably and are a good quality tuner that won't break the bank (used).

You might consider checking out eham reviews and get familiar with what's out there. Keep in mind that many of the reviews have little to do with the equipment quality and function and more to do with operator convenience. While most tuners work the same, they each have their own little corks about them.

Hope that helps a little.

[KG4KGW]

I'd have to go along with 231's post and add that you should purchase or build the best tuner you can afford. You may not have a KW today, but one day you may want to tune your antenna with one in line. If you buy a 200w tuner is will just arc over when you apply power to it.

The very best thing to have is a resonant antenna. It will beat a tuner any day of the week! 6 meters is such a small band if you get your antenna resonant in the middle it will usually be better than 2:1 on the edges as well. 10 meters you start to get a little long in the tooth since it covers a much larger band portion. Most people operate in the 28.5 area of the band since that is where the Tech's have privileges. However there are some repeaters further up the band. By the time you get to 20 meters you will certainly need a tuner to work the entire band. Even a resonant antenna there will only be resonant in the CW or Phone portions of the band and not both.

Tuners are very simple to build and in the past were usually one of the first projects that a new Ham would build. The parts are easily constructed or purchased and you can build a 1000w tuner for about 30 bucks. Putting a good meter and selector switches costs the most.

If you intend to stay under 300w and want an off the shelf manual tuner I highly recommend the MFJ-949E. I've run one without problems for years. I also have a Vectronics manual tuner for mobile use, but it sees little action. Seems to work just as good as the MFJ and they are made by the same company.

[rhino458]

To fill everyone in, I have an NCL-2000 1.5 KW amp which covers 10-80m. Plan on using a 3 element 6 meter beam with a different setup, a G5RV Maple Leaf about 30 ft up inverted. The beam will be about 40ft up. Using rg-213 since I have a virgin roll of it. I do have access to only 42ft of 1/2in andrews hardline if needed. So thats why I am looking for something from 6-20m. I will eventually move up to 40 and 80m but not likely right now unless my equipment aquired changes. Hope that helps. Thinking about selling the NCL-2000 too, tossing that up so I can buy a better HF setup.

[str8stroke]

Well your gonnna need a big tuner if your planning on running Legal Limit! But the G5RV shouldn't be too far out of tune. Let me know in a PM about the NCL-2000. I wouldn't mind one of those. I always liked that amp. Have you done any mods to the amp? any upgrades? Like changing caps, blower motor??

[str8stroke]

also forgot to say, I don't think I would run legal limit through a G5RV. Some how I didn't type that in the above statement!

[KG4KGW]

I've run legal limit on a homebrew inverted vee with no problems. The G5RV is just a center offset inverted vee that can be used as a center fed sloper , vee, flat topper, or L configuration. It should easily handle the power.

Keep in mind 1.5KW of RF isn't the same as 1.5KW of electricity.

[Slyguy]

Keep in mind 1.5KW of RF isn't the same as 1.5KW of electricity.

Care to explain this?

[str8stroke]

Keep in mind 1.5KW of RF isn't the same as 1.5KW of electricity.

Care to explain this?

I second that. Please explain that one.

[KG4KGW]

Keep in mind 1.5KW of RF isn't the same as 1.5KW of electricity.

Care to explain this?

The simplest way to explain the difference between an electrical watt and a watt of RF energy is that RF energy has the additional component of a magnetic field. This is not to say that electricity in itself does not emit a small amount of magnetic field.

An RF field has both an electric and a magnetic component (electric field and magnetic field), and it is often convenient to express the intensity of the RF environment at a given location in terms of units specific for each component. For example, the unit "volts per meter" (V/m) is used to measure the strength of the electric field and the unit "amperes per meter" (A/m) is used to express the strength of the magnetic field.

This is why we don't simply sample our output power with a volt / ohm meter. It is not a direct measurement of electrical power, but a measurement of RF energy which is electrical power present in the form of a magnetic field.

If it were any different you could simply hook your welder up to your antenna with the appropriate diode in place and have instant wattage in the cottage. This is why we have to carefully design tuned circuits that create reactance.

Hope this helps.

[Slyguy]

Keep in mind 1.5KW of RF isn't the same as 1.5KW of electricity.

Care to explain this?

The simplest way to explain the difference between an electrical watt and a watt of RF energy is that RF energy has the additional component of a magnetic field. This is not to say that electricity in itself does not emit a small amount of magnetic field.

An RF field has both an electric and a magnetic component (electric field and magnetic field), and it is often convenient to express the intensity of the RF environment at a given location in terms of units specific for each component. For example, the unit "volts per meter" (V/m) is used to measure the strength of the electric field and the unit "amperes per meter" (A/m) is used to express the strength of the magnetic field.

This is why we don't simply sample our output power with a volt / ohm meter. It is not a direct measurement of electrical power, but a measurement of RF energy which is electrical power present in the form of a magnetic field.

If it were any different you could simply hook your welder up to your antenna with the appropriate diode in place and have instant wattage in the cottage. This is why we have to carefully design tuned circuits that create reactance.

Hope this helps.

I still don't understand how this pertains to a g5rv being able to handle legal limit wattage.

[rhino458]

Pretty good explanation there. The amp itself looks stock inside. Came with an extra 8122 burle tube, yes only 1. I inherited the amp and it does work. It will pull 1200-1450 watts on the load using 10-60 watt drive. It is wired for 110 and really draws some power. Only one problem, I left the foot switch on the ground in the garage and the good ole mans best friend chewed it up, so off to HRO today to locate a RCA plug style foot switch.

[KG4KGW]

My explanation had nothing to do with the G5RV, but pertained to your request to explain why RF and Electrical energy are not the same thing.

Slyguy wrote:

KG4KGW wrote:Keep in mind 1.5KW of RF isn't the same as 1.5KW of electricity.

Care to explain this?

Depending on the make of G5RV (yes they are not only made in one size or by one manufacturer) the standard (original) is rated at 2.5KW. Before I put a KW into mine I'd read the specs on the one I purchased.

I can easily double the legal limit on my doggie wire inverted vee and if I offset the center feed could make a homebrew g5rv with the same materials. Although I'd have to look up the measurements to know for sure. If I were going to take the time to make another antenna it would likely be a double bazooka or a Carolina Windom. There are just so many choices out there!

[KG4KGW]

Also, why go to HRO for a footswitch? It is just a switch and carries no major power load. Go to Musician's Friend and order the $5 keyboard foot pedal and you won't be disappointed. If your unhappy with the switch you order after you get it PM me and I will be glad to buy it from you for what you paid for it.

[Night Crawler]

Only one problem, I left the foot switch on the ground in the garage and the good ole mans best friend chewed it up, so off to HRO today to locate a RCA plug style foot switch.

Why do you you need a foot swtich the older transcievers have a direct cnnection for it and for the newer ones an inerface is available.

[Slyguy]

Only one problem, I left the foot switch on the ground in the garage and the good ole mans best friend chewed it up, so off to HRO today to locate a RCA plug style foot switch.

Why do you you need a foot swtich the older transcievers have a direct cnnection for it and for the newer ones an inerface is available.

On my rig I use a foot switch to key the radio. The radio in turn keys the amp. Just keeps my hands free to take notes or whatever.

[KG4KGW]

same for me. If you want to key an amp there are a lot of better options than manual keying. I use a foot switch because my microphone doesn't have a switch on it. It is a studio microphone.

I ordered a PR-781 yesterday though so as soon as I can I've got to get a mixer to interface it with the radio. Currently I'm using the phantom power supplies output to wire it to the radio microphone input, but I may have to move this to the back of the radio through the rear audio input jacks.

I've grown very comfortable using the foot switch for keying.

[str8stroke]

I have to keep my foot free to kick my crazy cat!

[KG4KGW]

I have to keep my foot free to kick my crazy cat!

I know this may seem like an odd question, but do you have 2 feet? Key with 1 and kick with the other.


Just in case you only have 1 foot to use, you can always keep a spray bottle to squirt the cat with should you need to do it.

[Slyguy]

I have to keep my foot free to kick my crazy cat!

Take off the pink fuzzy slippers and the cat will leave you alone.