lost ball on top of antenna

[Jb1rd]

Have no clue about this. My brother runs a SS 102" whip from the bumper on a bar welded to the frame, sometime today the ball <-- (I know it has a name) at the top of his antenna got lost! He went to radio shack got a new 102", mounted it and his swr from the radio and leaving his amp in line the reading is now 2.0 across the board. Prior to this happening it was at 1.1 across the board with the amp left inline. Any help on this would be appreciated. He's checked the weld, the mount, and tomorrow he's gonna see if it might be the coax. As far as the coax goes I don't think he will be able to check it other than visually. Mike

[Alien Abductor]

There sometimes refered to as a "static ball" but theres no way loosing that made the swr jump that high, gotta be a coax/connector problem or something.

[jessejamesdallas]

If the older 102" Whip was made by a different company other than whoever makes the Whips now for Radio Shack, there could be a difference in the diameter of part of the whip itself, which may throw your SWR off some...Just because it's a 102" tall, doesn't mean it will tune the same, if the diameter of the whip is different somewhere...

Case in point. I have a 102" Whip that is probably close to 25 years old, and the thing is allot stiffer and a little thicker on the lower half of the antenna, vs. a Radio Shack one that I bought about a year ago, and on a SWR Meter, they read differently...

[Jb1rd]

Thank you, I hate when I can't remember what something is called, I don't know what to tell him because this is with a brand new 102" antenna that he got today. Swr 1.1 replace antenna, chk swr 2.0. Well, I've been thinking it's something to do with the coax, he's only got 24' of it in his vehicle and it's all tucked away as well. Could it be that when changing the antenna if, I wonder. Just got off the phone with him it's 3.0 now. they took amp out and put a 3" spring with antenna and have 1.1 on ch 1 and 1.0 on 40. With amp back in line 1.6 across the board. Well, I don't know why i did this. There cleaning the dirty battery post now.

I can't answer that JJD, he said he got them both from the same radio shack store. The one that lost the ball is just over a year old.

[jessejamesdallas]

Thank you, I hate when I can't remember what something is called, I don't know what to tell him because this is with a brand new 102" antenna that he got today. Swr 1.1 replace antenna, chk swr 2.0. Well, I've been thinking it's something to do with the coax, he's only got 24' of it in his vehicle and it's all tucked away as well. Could it be that when changing the antenna if, I wonder. Just got off the phone with him it's 3.0 now. they took amp out and put a 3" spring with antenna and have 1.1 on ch 1 and 1.0 on 40. With amp back in line 1.6 across the board. Well, I don't know why i did this. There cleaning the dirty battery post now.

I can't answer that JJD, he said he got them both from the same radio shack store. The one that lost the ball is just over a year old.

Then they are probably the same antenna then, if it was only a year old and from the same place...But, since you said he Now has a SWR of 3.0, then most likely he has a short somewhere, and I would first look at where the coax is screwed onto the antenna mount...Be willing to bet one of his connectors is shorting out.

[Twink]

what does the swr read on the "broken" antenna? i re-read the post to make sure, and i didn't see anything about checking the swr after the thing broke off. i'd check that, and if swr is still good, get your $25 back.


must be nice to be able to go to rat shack and get a 102".... i'm out in the sticks and rat shack doesn't carry them.... ugh... oh well.

[Jb1rd]

Oh, I don't know after all this they finally decided to look and realized his power was set to 4 watts on the radio and that's when he got 2.0 across the board, still had it set to 4 watts and got 3.0 across the board, then added a 3" spring. So needless to say He finally turned the radio down to 2 watts and the swr needle doesn't move and can still calibrate the meter. I guess this is where big brother looks dumb! I do have a question about this though, I think there is a problem with something though. Because if he changed nothing and checked swr at 4 watts and checked again at 4 watts and both times he got a different reading? Oh, well Thanks for the replies.

[Jb1rd]

I don't even know if he mentioned that to me twink, I don't mind doing this for him, but he kept adding coax length to get a better reading so to have 36' in a ford explorer, I think is a problem in itself. Right now my face is getting warm, but it's not my set up and when him and his friend get together everything is fun and games! Not to sound like I don't care because I do, but he just won't listen. I agree with JJD, but when you have an 18' and a 6' connected to a 12' to get 18' to me and an amp to boot, there's a lot of places that short could be. Right now to him everything is fine after I mentioned if it jumped from 2 to 3 and you didn't change anything and he says no there's a problem. Tomorrow he probably be talking on it, and as a general rule give it a week or two and I will get a call about the swr being high. 18' to antenna and 18' jumper. There's a story about the radio shack though twink, I don't think they are still an authorized dealer, but if they were to leave that town anything someone would need for t.v., computer and so fourth. it would be go to walmart. Oh I made a typo sometimes I can't add either 24' should read 36'.

[Twink]

that's a looooooot of coax! i've got 3'+6'+18'.... i wish i could cut down the 18'... it's about 6' too long, and i want to chang out the 6' for a 3' or shorter, since it's all there. radio-3'-amp-6'-swr/power/mod meter-18'-wilson 1k. the shorter the better right? i don't think adding all that coax will change swr, and if so, in a bad way.... not sure about that but that's what i think. i do know the longer the coax, the less signal gets to the antenna....

[Jb1rd]

Didn't mean to leave you out alien, that's what I've been thinking as well.

['Doc]

First, if the only thing missing on that original whip was the static ball, there should be no difference in SWR. If the SWR was within reason with the original 102" whip, and you exchanged the broken one for another 102", there should have been no significant change in SWR. At least not what was quoted.
SWR is NOT power related. If the SWR meter is calibrated correctly for the amount of power being used to test with, sure the SWR can change. So, do it right.
As for the 36 feet of feed line, it's a waste of coax. But if it makes him feel good, have at it.
The whole thing sound's sort of "iffy", more to it than is being told. I think I'd put things back like they were to start with, but with the new whip. Make sure things are assembled correctly, then recheck the SWR with a calibrated meter.
- 'Doc

[626]

Its called a CORONA BALL

man you guys throw away a lot of money in coax. I bought 18 feet of it and did my install with an amp inline and still had enough coax to make a few jumpers. LOL

[Twink]

First, if the only thing missing on that original whip was the static ball, there should be no difference in SWR. If the SWR was within reason with the original 102" whip, and you exchanged the broken one for another 102", there should have been no significant change in SWR. At least not what was quoted.
SWR is NOT power related. If the SWR meter is calibrated correctly for the amount of power being used to test with, sure the SWR can change. So, do it right.
As for the 36 feet of feed line, it's a waste of coax. But if it makes him feel good, have at it.
The whole thing sound's sort of "iffy", more to it than is being told. I think I'd put things back like they were to start with, but with the new whip. Make sure things are assembled correctly, then recheck the SWR with a calibrated meter.
- 'Doc

thats what i was trying to say, but you put it in better words... as always...

[Jb1rd]

Doc, all I did was relay, nothing else. I wasn't there and it was probably a good thing too. How do you tell someone some thing is wrong and is not working right when they won't listen? If I came on here and said my swr was 2, 1 hr ago and change nothing and check it again and it's now showing a 3. I'm gonna because there's a problem, why did he replace the whip after the static ball was lost and gets another and still has a high swr I don't know. I'm not him and wasn't there! AS far as iffy yeah, his whole set up to me is iffy, but it's his set up, not mine. Was he making it up? That did cross my mind more than once, but I don't believe that, he's gotten so attached to that radio it's unreal and an ego to boot because of it. What do I think, I think he's got a connector shorting somewhere, where I don't know. Point being he is going to do it his way and got off the phone once the posts started coming in after he turned the a knob and flipped a switch and bingo now his swr needle isn't moving so his world is alive again, but I tell you what Doc, the post was made at his request and when I talk to him tomorrow or he calls me because the swr is high again I'm gonna tell him what the other members had put down. Will he listen to them, who knows his friends radio is talking loud, or talking soft or it's squealing. Do I tell him anything NO, why? because he will turn it into a debate. What else is there to be told? He has a 12'+6' running from the radio to the amp, 18' from amp to antenna and it's all out of sight except for the what comes out the back to the antenna connector. Wouldn't listen to me about using his seat bolt for a ground to his amp, he listened after it bit the fire out of his hand and ran it to the battery then. That's his set up right there. Along with a metal bar welded to the frame to mount his antenna. Am I a little hot yeah, answers come and he runs off because his friend has got to go home! In my opinion nothing worse than family asking you to do something, then you start thinking to your self he better not be making this one up. I've been at my grandparents and had him pull up, and the first words out of his mouth my swr is high again. He'll tinker with it look over his coax, check his mount he must have magic hands or something and after wards it's fine. So what is causing it, the weld? maybe. And yes I realize this post is under my name, but if you would like Doc, I'd be more than happy to give you his phone number and he can call you every time it's reading high just don't mention anything about that radio if his girlfriend answers! Chances are he never would, he has surprised me once or twice, so what am I going to do? I'm going to tell him what the other members put down and he can take it or leave it.

I may be wrong twink, I have heard and read where lengthening the coax does change the swr reading at the meter, as a whole I don't think so. there are others here that can give you a much more complete answer. I have been told to use enough to get from point A to B, going to be doing that on my new stuff when it gets here.

[Jb1rd]

Not me just my brother, he was having swr issues running 12' jumper and someone told him that is had to be18' so he did it. Mike

[Jb1rd]

need an edit button should say I'm gonna listen, After you teach me how to make my own connections gunny I'll only need 8-10ft. Mike

[626]

Dont let it frustrate you too much. Everybody has there own way of doing things. And there is more than one way to skin a cat. So, learn all you can, make suggestions to your bro and when you stomp all over him with your setup then maybe he will listen...

['Doc]

Jb1rd,
None of this was meant as a criticism of you, or saying that you aren't telling the truth. I certainly didn't intend it to sound like that, and am sorry if it did.
As far as someone not paying attention to something, or misunderstanding something, I think we've all been there (on both sides of that fence), and sometimes it makes you really wonder about your own sanity, you know? Being the 'middleman' means you catch it from both sides, , almost no way out'a that one! (Ho ho ho, as if you didn't know that, right?)
No, I don't need your friend's name/email/whatever. I figure he'll get the same advice from you as he would from me, and it'd probably mean more coming from someone he knows rather than a stranger. (Besides, I'm lazy, you do it, I'll hide and watch )
- 'Doc

[Jb1rd]

Doc, no problem. I don't want you to hide either. Yeah, it made me mad for him to ask me to do this and after I did, I started to think to myself. Why did I do it? My brother keeps calling every time he has a problem. His friend doesn't help matters none, members start posting and he gets off the phone! Anyway, I just sent him a text with the answers provided and if he isn't willing to check over anything and check his connections/connectors then to me it's about the same as him asking me to start this to make me look like an idiot.

I guess you could say I've come to a fork in the road Doc, I'm tired of the calls, but don't want to hurt his feelings either. But, yes I did make my face a little warm to do what he did. I posted at his request, and the most frustrating part about it is, I know I'll get a a phone call sooner or later about his swr. Actually Doc, it might get his attention if he heard it from some else. Everything that he has done so far, has either come from someone else, or makes the change when he realizes what I said to him was right. Don't ground amp at seat bolt, don't run more than 2watt DK on your amp and don't run amp at home in the parking lot. Did he listen no. He got a rf burn on his hand, his amp needle was swinging backwards, the cops were called because people got tired of him coming through their home appliances. And yes I happen to be the one in the middle, do I also agree with the iffy statement you made yes. I also believe one of two things is going to happen. No one will loan him a swr meter including myself because he messes them up.

Doc, your fine, I just don't think I ever realized how much it was getting to me till now. Sorry if me response was on the hostile side Doc. Mike

Thank you all for the replies

[Jb1rd]

Well, I thank all of you, sent the responses and got the usual response, it's fine now! So anyway, it'll probably be one I may have to check back to myself. I haven't told him about the new set up that is on it's way, but I'd like to set it up the way I have mine now, but I just can't afford the extra power wire and coax. So the way I'm going I should hopefully only need a total length of 8-10ft tops of coax. If I'm right I may have a time tuning the antenna, but it will be tuned. Not to start a fight, debate, or what ever you want to call it. If all I need is 4ft and still have enough slack that's all I'm going to use instead of 18ft to my antenna. My thoughts about that are if I use 4ft and get 1.8 swr and throw 18ft on it. I have more loss, resistance, and it looks good at the meter, but nothing has changed matching wise, but when hooked up if it's 1.1 swr I guess I can run, jump and be merry! Mike

[Jb1rd]

I was just wondering if anybody might be able to enlighten me on something that I had read in another post this morning? As I mentioned before my brothers got 36' of coax, I think there is a short in there somewhere. Anyway, while using all the coax to get a swr reading to suit him and it(swr) doing what it is doing, could it be the coax is being used as an antenna when this is happening? I know amp, bad grounding can smoke your coax, but would cause coax to used as an antenna?

['Doc]

Can a feed line be acting as an antenna? Yes. Is that good? No. Why? Cuz it means that something isn't 'right' with the antenna at the end of that feed line. It also means that there will be radiation where it's not really going to be doing you any good, and will probably be causing problems with RFI to other things. (Which says nothing about you being exposed to that radiation. I'm not saying it would be terribly harmful to a human, but it sure isn't doing much good. Otherwise, why bother putting an antenna 'out there', and 'up there'?)
It's also a fact that if that feed line is long enough, there doesn't have to be anything on the end of it and that SWR meter will still give you a very nice reading. Why? Cuz it's the right impedance that the transmitter wants to see, and the power fed to it is being dissipated in the resistance/impedance of the feed line. (Ask them UHF people about that .)
Using coax as a matching device, a 'Q' section. Sure, it'll work. The problem is that coax was never designed to work that way and can be fairly easily harmed by doing so. It may be -an- option for matching an antenna, but will never be the best way of doing it, it very definitely has limits.
Wanna bad comparison? I used to make 'ranch' salad dressing where I worked. You could do that mixing with a large spoon, but using a paint-mixer thingy on a hand drill made it SOOoooooo much easier/faster. I didn't much care for ranch dressing to start with, and after making as many gallons as I have, it makes me sick just thinking about it. Yuck!
Okay, I'll quit...
- 'Doc

[Jb1rd]

Thank you, Doc.

[Jb1rd]

Well, I got the call yesterday from my brother telling me how he fixed the above problems. They went to a machine shop and had a 7" extension made to raise the antenna up.